PidginKaduKopeteEtc

hi, all of these instant messagers are use the close protocol, for example: gadu-gadu is it all right?

Close protocol! O.o?

could you explain, what the "O.o?" means? thanks

I didn't undestand the question the first time, sorry, :)
O.o? (is the emoticon that i use for "what?!).
Could you be more specific on the question about IM protocol use?

What harmageddon is trying to say is this IMHO: is it right for a distribution that wants to stay 100% free to include messengers that use proprietary protocols such as gadu-gadu?

precisely; thank you arc and sorry for my probalby bad english.

i think harmageddon is confused. gNS consists of software; free software. a protocol is not software; it is a specification. it is not free nor non-free; an implementation of that protocol may be free or non-free. i don't use any of what is being typed abou' so i do not know if free software is being included here. if it is, then point it out for removal. --shalom.

i'm sorry but i meant, 'i do not know if non-free software is being included here' --cms.

well, i use jabber (XMPP), and yahoo. Of course i prefer to stay away from MSN protocol, account, and related stuff.
I'm not sure that we can decide over protocols, i think is fine (as long as they don't force you to use non-free software for any matter)

in reply to Ark74: you aren't understanding. a protocol cannot be free or non-free; it is not software. the implementation of the protocol is what you use so you use 'yahoo': it is a piece of software that implements messaging protocols, including 'yahoo'. if a messaging client implements the 'msn' protocol as free software then it may be included in gNS.

thanks arc from Ark hehehe, they sound the same :)

I am thinking about changing my nick into my real name to avoid confusion and to get some credit. ;)

cmsimon, i'm not talking about the protocol itself, but the company that uses it. I'm sure you got the point in the first place.

As i said, i think is fine, as long as (the company that runs the protocol) they doesn't force you to use non-free software for any matter, while using the 'protocol'.

ark74: i think you ought to work on your english.

What i have to say is, that in (for example) Poland the gadu-gadu's protocol and the gadu-gadu messenger is very popular (most popular) and at any moment they can say (i mean the Gadu-Gadu's Company), that we should use only the gadu-gadu messenger (no pidgin, kopete, kadu, etc.). A couple months ago, they said something like this (that people should use only the gadu-gadu messanger). I think, we (well, the gNewSense users) should promote only the open protocols. (if you know what i mean). I think, everything (software, drivers, firmwares, protocols) is bad if is close. ...and sorry again for my english:) (maybe i should create a polish gNewSense's forum:))

harmageddon: please don't use the terms 'open' and 'closed' because that clearly indicates open source; we are part of the free software movement. what we do is free software, not open source. my remark about english wasn't directed towards you nor was it an attack towards ark74; i simply think he doesn't express his ideas clearly in english. i see nothing unique about what you have said. i suggest you educate people on why free software is important and why they ought to reject non-free software. encourage others to use free software that use free formats. --shalom.

yes, cmsimon, you have right, i shoudnt use the terms 'open' and 'closed'.

im sorry for hijacking this thread. i think the question im gonna ask isnt important enough.

i installed and enabled pidgin musictracker but cant get it to work. i installed via apt-get

thx in advance

I did it to, and it works fine.
How do you know that it's not working?

problem solved. issue #37

is there a checkbox in "toggle status changing"? how am i suposed to know its on or off?

protocols the force the user to use non free software or make free software compatibility an obstacle should not be utilized in a completely free operating system. I understand protocols are not software but when they subjugate the the users freedom which can be done and has been done in numerous ways they should not be allowed one similar such example is the qam protocol utilized in north america has been designed to limit the users freedom.

your 'force' is grossly exaggerated; simply do without the non-free software. it makes no sense to exclude a piece of free software that implements a non-free protocol; it makes no sense at all. --cms.

Well, i think, gnuwatch have right. Sorry cmsimon, but i think the non-free protocol (yes, the protocol can be non-free) are just non-free. this is the fact and for example pidgin, kopete, etc still use them and this is the reason, why i not use these messengers.

Here's what I suggest. We remove all protocols that we think _might_ be morally dubious, we even remove TCP and we then all communicate by posted mail until we come to a decision. The posted mail should be stuck of a bulletin board in the basement of the Alpha Centurai library and community centre.

haha. XD

hmm.. these protocols are not morally dubious. They are non-free; simple. We're fighting for the freedom, right? You can still use for example ekiga.

I agree Freedom is what it is all about!

harmageddon and gnuwatch are so confused they make absolutely no sense. there is absolutely no lack of freedom as defined by the free software movement. the software is free software. either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are trolls.

I'll try to make the think clearer. The closed (=secret) protocolls are a problem as we come to open communication. It's like closed file formats. Openoffice.org is able to handle secret MS file-formats but that doesn't mean it's "unfree" in the sense of Free Software.

I personally think that information should be free and therefore should be saved in open formats and transfered using open protocols. But if you want to stick with this idea, you also can't add free drivers for hardware, where the specification aren't public.

my fazit: it's siply not feasible.

sssSCH: replace 'closed' with non-free and 'open' with free: information ought to be free. protocols ought to be free. formats ought to be free. software ought to be free. i supoprt free software, free formats, free protocols, free free free. --namaste.

cmsimon have you seen the FSF's High Priority Free Software Projects page? It lists Xiph.org and free internet protocols as a high priority project to advancing freedom. Here is the site if you have not seen it http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html

gnuwatch: i have, yes. so what?

cmsimon: no comment

harma': wise.