BuyingANewLaptop

Hi,

I'd like to buy a new laptop and i was wondering how can be 100% sure that there are 100% Free drivers for all its hardware - no binary blobs, no surprises with WiFi, cameras and video cards, etc.

I live in Israel and computer vendors here are even more Windows-centric than in the rest of the world. Hardware vendors here often just say that a laptop has a "wireless network card" or a "DVD burner" and don't give the details about model, manufacturer etc.; it works on Windows so nobody cares for more information.

Is there some _SAFE_ way to test a computer before buying it? For example, i'd be happy to have a minimal live CD from which i can boot and then run a test.

Hi

You could ask for running the GNS live-cd on a vendor's laptop before buying it. Yes, it sounds strange, but you can try... If the live-cd runs well, buy it. PD: I heard that Toshiba laptops works well with GNU/Linux. Good luck.

Well, it's acceptable, albeit a bit embarrassing and time-consuming. I've done it once with an Ubuntu live CD and it complained about the need for restricted drivers for an Intel wireless card.

Has anyone succeeded at doing it on a laptop with gNewSense AND having all hardware work completely, including 3D? Being able to know whether a laptop supports purely free software before going to the store would be more convenient than wasting a few minutes on trying a live CD on every laptop and getting on the salespeople's nerves.

Hi Have a 100% compatible gNewSense laptop is very difficult, because the 90% of hardware specifications are restricted. For 3D support, I recommend you Intel video chipsets, which are full-supported by GNU/Linux (including 3D).

There is no test for laptop. All vendors are cutters of money.

one thing that worries me about modern intel processors is that they are said to be extremely buggy (theo de raadt recently went on one of his tirades about this). if only someone made a laptop using the opensparc architecture :) of course, a device like that would be prohibitively expensive, but it would be pretty cool :)

hey now sorry to butt in amire80 -- im runnine a compaq m2401 a very inexpensive model it has the intel celeron m chip and and gnewsense runs very well on it

I too am interested in buying a new laptop, but don't know what to look for. What about System76 if I opt for the Intel graphics?

Why isn't there a list of recommended laptop makers somewhere? I really just want to buy from the company that is the most Free software considerate. Does anyone here have any suggestions or recommendations?

You might want to wait until the newest version of gNewSense is released. Laptops use a very different set of hardware than desktops. As such, you might want a newer kernel to ensure that all the hardware will work.

There's a list of hardware devices that support GNU/Linux at fsf page: http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw

After some researches I think it's safe to say that most (old) IBM Thinkpads laptops that have Intel graphics are good to run gNewSense. Beware that many new Lenovo Thinkpads have a Broadcom ethernet card that is not recognized by gNewSense. It happens beacuse those ethernet cards have gpl drivers but they rely upon proprietary firmware to function. I have a Lenovo R60 that has a Broadcom ethernet card. It's already listed on FSF hardware page: it doesn't function.

I don't know anything about Dell laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled. Does someone own them? Would you like to run gNewSense on them and report what you find?

It would be useful. ;)

I've personally run gNewSense successfully on three different Toshiba laptops, a Satellite A30, an SPA40 and I forget what the third one is as it's at home.

This does not mean that any newer Toshibas would work though as they, like all laptop manufacturers, keep on changing the innards even on seemingly identical models.

I think the only real way is to get hold of a laptop and run the live disk.

As for the Dell laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed. They'll quite happily stick in non-free drivers (eg. for the Nvidia graphics and lord knows what for wireless etc) so I wouldn't rely on them running gNewSense without a hitch.

For wireless on the Toshibas I put in some cheapo Edimax wireless cards with RTL8180 chipsets which can be easily set up with free drivers in gNewSense.

The only "free laptop" (free bios included!) is the OLPC: http://laptop.org/

The only proprietary thing is the wireless firmware and some developers are working to rewrite it. You can buy it on ebay but it's very expensive.

If you ask me for another choice I should say that Thinkpads in general are almost free.

I read on Ars Technica a review of a Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled. It still uses restricted drivers.

I found this,
http://linuxpreloaded.com/ maybe you would like to ask some of the manufactures about gNewSense on their machines, but i personally would wait 'til the next gNS release.
If any get in contact, please share the answers. :)

Chi3 hosts a similar resource with a particular attention to Italian users. You can find it here: http://www.chi3.org/computer.en.php

Time permitting I will try to improve it with your suggestions. Thank you very much.

I bought this laptop : http://www.laptopservice.fr/vmchk/PC-Portables/IBM-Thinkpad-X31-Ultraportable.html

All is ok (wifi, ...). I believe all is free.

I don't like having to write this, but you may have been misled, PW.

The Thinkpad X31 used an Intel Centrino chipset that includes WiFi.

The "drivers" for these Centrino WiFi chips require the loading of binary microcode from Intel into the kernel. The same type of binary blob that is removed from gNewSense since it is not Free Software.

Sorry :-(

I do hope that there is a way of plugging a wireless card into an X31 that does not need proprietary sotware.

I was not sure. I don't use wifi. So thanks for the information

All is ok (wifi, ...). I believe all is free.

Ah i remmemeber. THe wifi was ok with debian and I don't try it with gNewSense.

Excuse for the wrong information

According to RMS, the OLPC XO is the only one laptop almost 100% free. Only the firmware is non-free but you can remove it.

source : http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/can-we-rescue-olpc-from-windows

oupps sorry for the doubloon, arc

Thanks for the "source". I heard something about the OLPC going to Windows, it's a shame for the OLPC first goal.
\Maybe someday i'll try one of this almost 100% free laptop.

Speaking of the pain to obtain FS compatible hardware: We are working on a list of hardware vendors who provide either Free Software pre-installed or none at all: http://wiki.fsfe.org/Hardware_vendors (note: be aware that the wiki is unofficial/beta and will soon be replaced)

@PW Don't worry for that. I ordered an OLPC. When it will arrive I'll try to put gNewSense on it and will post here the results. Richard wrote that post after I sent him an email about what Negroponte was trying to do.

@guido Hi, we meet again. :) Another source for hardware vendors that provide computers with GNU/Linux preinstalled or without any os at all is here: http://www.chi3.org/computer.en.php

Please help me keeping it updated. Thank you very much.

What about ZaReason.com? They seem to be all about Free hardware/software solutions. In a forum post somewhere that I can't seem to find now, they said that they want to be an earily adopter of OpenBIOS/coreboot, when it is feasible. Has anyone had any experience with any of their systems?

a free bios is important. and coreboot provides a free bios. i hope they adopt the free bios project coreboot.

linuxquestions.org has an extensive hardware compatibility list.

Go to "LAPTOPS" at the bottom and select a brand. You might find someone who has your model and find out what their issues were.

Lemote - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemote - makes laptops that may be 100% free software compatible, including a free (albit BSD-Licensed) BIOS. Current annoyances are that they are not available in the US (not FCC approved), and there is not a gNS port to their architecture (MIPS-based).

Me and Ark74 have bought an Asus EEE PC and installed gNewSense on it. After a default installation and full update, webcam, wifi, ethernet and sound don't work. Ark74 is hacking it more than me and AFAIK he succeded to make those pieces of hardware work adding some modules to the kernel.

So apart from the bios the eee pc should work using only free software but I expect ark74 to report his researches here.

Come on Ark, share with us your progresses. Information wants to be free. ;)

Hehehe!
Sorry for the delay, i was a little bit busy, but now i'm back.
Well after testing many times with gNewSense and Ubuntu on the Eee Pc. I got the differences and good and weak points of them. But i think is better if we continue this on the gNewSense Asus EeePc line, agree?

You should check out Los Alamos Computers at http://laclinux.com/.

We all know about LAC but those computers do not have a free bios so they are not fully free. I know FSF is collaborating with them to solve this problem but without any help from the chip manufacturers it's not easy to make coreboot run on them. Lenovo refused to release the necessary information to make coreboot function on their laptops.

I believe the FSF is currently busy with the development of a MIPS-based gNewSense to make it run on the Lemote mini-pc.

Lemote uses a PMON bootloader which is BSD-licensed and fully free.

If gNewSense would run on the Lemote, we may have another free alternative besides the OLPC.

gnoe: please be more clear than "BSD-licensed" because that is just sloppy and confusing. --shalom.

cmsimon,

See: http://opsycon.com/PMON2000/OnlineManual/legal.htm

Lemote's bootloader is based on PMON2000 with some adjustments.

what gnoe says it's true. I had a discussion with the FSF board recently. Lemote is offering the FSF the opportunity to collaborate building and promoting an entirely free software laptop.

Maybe the Lemote laptop called

"mengloong" could become the first fully free software laptop:

http://www.lemote.com/english/mengloong.html

It's MIPS64 based and it has only a dvd-rom + cdrw combo but if the collaboration with Lemote goes well we could have a chance to even see coreboot on this. :)