Personally I think that our current forum isn't working so well, and lacks some very basic features. Therefore I have created something of an unofficial forum:

http://floatious.org/forum/

If enough people feel like we should replace our current forum with something else, then perhaps we could convince the leader(s) of gNewSense to officially adopt another forum.

I will be checking the unofficial forum daily, and if you too feel like our current official forums is a nightmare that scares away new members, feel free to post at the unofficial one.

Just for the sake of clarity: Further discussion is taken to http://wiki.gnewsense.org/Projects/ForumMigration

Well, there you go. Too bad really, I was looking forward to being able to browse the forum by category as opposed to a long list of unrelated topics. Later.

Hello Niklas.

The forum says:

I think you dropped the project too early. I only saw positive responses in the mailing list. What happened?

If you are committed to run a forum for gNewSense, do it; no matter if it's unofficial or not. I think many people (including myself) would find very helpful the forum you proposed.

I really want to encourage you to keep the idea running.

Bye,

I think our forum isn't working so well, because it is a little hidden since a few month. It isn't very easy, especially for a newbie, to find it. To give the forum a prominent link on the homepage would make the forum works better. I think an unofficial forum is good, but a better working official better.

I'm definitely up for a "proper" forum (there must be something like phpBB that is _free_, if phpBB isn't already?). Linked to the main website it could be a very good source for support, like the Ubuntu forums are now (though I would suggest to have a smaller forum :p).

Whereas I also want to keep the mailinglist/wiki/IRC, I think a centralised forum linked to the main website would be the best way to support new users.

gNewSense has the potential of attracting a lot of new people to a fully free OS, to show them the ideals of the free software movement and to make them think about their freedom in their lives (and their computers).

This forum is, with respect, substandard. This type of forum generally scares me away because all I see is an "in-your-face" amalgation of disparate topics. (Neatly) arranged subforums, and then the scary topics, would in my opinion be better.

My "ideal" would be something like the (unofficial) Debian forums: forums.debian.net .

I'd be more than willing to help out, including financially (hosting etc).

For the record: I am grateful for gNewSense and all the effort that has gone into the OS and the support surrounding it. My opinions about the forum are not meant to criticise and I hope they don't come over as such.

I forgot this in my previous post:

    "Just for the sake of clarity: Further discussion is taken to http://wiki.gnewsense.org/Projects/ForumMigration"

I've never edited a Wiki myself, and I'd feel rude editing that page to showcase my own view. How are we able to discuss things on there? That said, I agree with the facts stated on that Wiki page.

The obscurity of the forum has a charm, but as a new user I am struggling to get help. I think improving the official forum is a better path than striding out unofficially, especially if that would build bad feeling unless it is in a seperation of powers type set up.

I think this forum works well as a quick question-and-answer board, and certainly has its charm - but it lacks community. A "real" forum, with a little off-topic section, and/or a section for related subjects, will soon have a community form around it where we can talk about and help eachother with other things than gNewSense too.

I know a gNewSense forum shouldn't be obliged to cater to other things, but if these subjects are related, why not? It'll only help the gNewSense userbase and community (and thus exposure and free software in general) expand. Ultimately, the OS and the free software movement would, I think, greatly benefit.

What I didn't make clear in my previous post, and which 3pr eloquently put, is that a new forum shouldn't be unofficial. If the creators of gNewSense have no time (or interest - we're all different, after all) to run it or set it up, it should at least be approved of by them. And, as I mentioned, linked to/from the gNewSense website.

Free software has become great through volunteers, and I'm confident there'll be enough people (me included) willing to put time and, if needed, money aside for a great idea such as a 100% free OS. (Of course I don't just mean a forum with this.)

Community is a good point. The free software community, through its resistance and politics, can, in cetain ways, be a little out dated. I mean, I didn't expect to be using IRC in 2009- it really isn't common to the vast majority of computer users and if we want to connect with them and spread the word of free software, more mainstream styles of forums (and the token off-topic forum as you say Imperium) and communication away from mailing lists etc need to be used. I'm not saying get rid of the old channels as they still work, serve a purpose, and are well used, but they don't have the same connect that a shiny forum does.

Yes indeed, a "phpBB like" forum would be great.

phpBB itself is free, apparently: http://www.phpbb.com/downloads/license/ .

Any thoughts from the gNewSense people?

I wouldn't be any good at scrutiny of license but sounds good to me.

With these grand ideas of bigger better forums and fostering a stronger community, it does make me wonder, how many hits does the site get? Does it warrent the expansion into multiple forums and so on?

Where do new users come from? Are they existing Linux users? Are they attracted to the politics?

I can't answer for hits or whether or not a "real" forum is warranted (though even at the presumed size of this wiki forum I'd support it).

As for users, this is just my opinion:

I was actually thinking about exactly that when walking home from work this morning. It is perfectly possible to, sometimes with a bit of extra effort, install a free/libre kernel on an existing GNU/Linux system. If you then avoid all non-free software on that system, you've got yourself a free OS. Not out of the proverbial box (as the OS came with the Linux kernel with the non-free bits), but you made it free yourself.

For people interested in free software but who lack the knowledge or who are scared of making big changes like kernel replacements, gNewSense and other free operating systems are the answer. Other people do all the work to make sure your OS and software (from the repositories) is free. Users don't have to bother with licensing details or big system changes which could render their OS unusable if they make a mistake: they know that what they get is free.

In my opinion, too many people think that free software is only good for programmers and the like - for people who actually want to change the code. Once the general public gets it into their heads that it benefits them too, we could see a progressive shift towards free software and thus free operating systems. But, that is assuming the general public will understand it... For that to happen, I think some free software "speeches" need to change and focus on how currently users are locked into corporate products, when they could have a free system where they're helped by a community. (That, of course, is the short version.) Instead of focusing on the benefits of free software, rub the users' faces in how owned they are - and how they paid their hard-earned money to be owned! It would still require people to think outside of the box for five seconds to get it; but maybe some of them would. The four freedoms are immensely important and shouldn't be changed, but to the average user they don't mean a lot. The porn sites the average user visits being recorded by <insert company>, however... Or maybe the fact that when they want support, they can try asking for help on a much-used GNU/Linux forum, rather than calling <company's> helpine at 50 cents a minute - with a twenty-minute-wait minimum.

I don't know, I think I'm just ranting by now. It's all very complex.

I think existing GNU/Linux users would be attracted to 100% free operating systems if they care about 100% freedom. I think that's the same as the average, non-free-software-using user (attracted by the idea/ideal). The ideal and idea of freedom (and community?) will attract people. Current GNU/Linux users will probably understand just a little bit more about computers to "get it", but in pure essence I don't think there's a lot of difference - freedom has to be lost to be appreciated. And if you don't consider corporate-owned-OS-use as a loss of freedom, then you won't appreciate the freedom of GNU/LinuxLibre.

All in all, it's disgusting to think about this (because I know people rather stick with a shitty system because they know which button to press to get a menu, rather than spend two seconds figuring out which button to press to get a menu on a different OS!). It's even more disgusting that I'm typing this on an Ubuntu machine with proprietary nVidia drivers activated - because else I can't get my TV to work as a second screen. So in this post I'm more of a "do as I say, not as I do" guy... which voids any argument I may have made.

Still, being Ubuntu-based, I think gNewSense has the potential of being the 100% free Ubuntu (as in popularity). But for a community to grow around that, we need more than a wiki forum. Youngish internet users nowadays don't tend to take to mailing lists or IRC (it's a shame, really, but that's life) - I think, with a bit of luck, we could build a thriving forum and community around gNewSense.

I'm sorry for the erratic and very uneloquent post, but this is a subject with many, many facets and my writing (English isn't my first language) can only go so far. To add to that, the question posed by 3pr ("Where do new users come from? Are they existing Linux users? Are they attracted to the politics?") evokes an hours-long answer, followed by a weeks-long debate - neither of which can be contained in one post :)

I have used "YABB" forum (Perl based) and I like it much. I am not sure how their license is done, but it is open source, I know that.

http://www.yabbforum.com/community/